Hows Deathwing H progression going?

[Taiphon]

asia will dominate the HC scene from now on, mark my words.

The LFR-exploit, the 8-day ban, the undertuning of the final fight and the dounle Firelands resets make it impossible to compare this race with previous, and I hope future ones.

But look at previous tiers: Asian guilds beat US guilds in both T10 and T11. In T12 there were two US and two Asian guilds in the top 10. And remember Yogg+0?

Top Asian guilds have edged out top US guilds for years. And this tier the top EU guilds, who usually dominate, got hit hard with an 8-day ban and a disadvantage in gear. Add a relatively undertuned final encounter...

Exceptional circumstances are no good for making future predictions.

p.s. Assuming it take 3-4 days from 7/8 to 8/8, the race to World Second will be won by whoever does not take a Christmas break.

[Canafly]

Let me remind you that it wasn't an American guild who got either of the world-firsts on Deathwing. KIN Raiders don't even have 10M progression displayed in progression -- They didn't receive any bans, either. That means that Blood Legion didn't run the race alone.

Yeah, just with a few hours head start. Any US guild, which is dedicated and at least somehow skilled, can easily get the first bosses world first in the race. The first hc bosses are irrelevant in the WF race - just as normal modes.
World first Shannox doesnt seem to be worth investing shitloads of time.
Just look at the last tier for Blood Legion

World's 1-4 on the first four bosses, but already 5th for baleroc and 9th for majordomo. On the hardest fight 13th.
13th is the measurement - Same goes in T11. Cho gall, Sinestra 8th, Nef 5th and Al Akir 17th.

Saying BL is competing for WF is simply rediculous. That they could get a WF sometime is out of question. But anyone could be great in the future. I see higher chances for Karfagen or Exorsus, as the Russian player base is far less exploited.

[Taiphon]

World first Shannox doesnt seem to be worth investing shitloads of time.

Stars did invest the money for a double faction change to get it. :)

But yeah, the fact that resets are staggered from US -> EU -> Asia means the ranking in any encounter that can be defeated in less than 48 hours is meaningless. I'm a lousy sprinter, but even I can defeat Usain Bolt on the 100m with a 10 seconds headstart.

And Madness of Deathwing took only about 72 hours after Spine of Deathwing, which is barely long enough by that metric.

[meth]

Are you forgetting that they had several world first kills this season?

According to their own and very up to date wowprogress profile they had: World 1st Morchok / Zonozz / Yor'sahj / Hagara / Ultraxion 25 Heroic as World Firsts. No other notables during the entire expansion. WF on Beth'Tilac HC, thats it.

For myself that is enough to claim that they are no serious contender for the important WF bosses if all guilds start at once without any bans, like we had this time.

[lol]

Are you forgetting that they had several world first kills this season?

According to their own and very up to date wowprogress profile they had: World 1st Morchok / Zonozz / Yor'sahj / Hagara / Ultraxion 25 Heroic as World Firsts. No other notables during the entire expansion. WF on Beth'Tilac HC, thats it.

For myself that is enough to claim that they are no serious contender for the important WF bosses if all guilds start at once without any bans, like we had this time.

As to your first point, what you're saying is that a guild that came into existence at the start of this expansion, and since then went from being somewhere between a top 10 to top 25 (depending on what boss you want to call the end-boss) guild in tier 11 to a top 11 guild in t12 has no chance of being the number 1 guild in tier 13? Despite being formed this expansion they certainly didn't come out of nowhere. They've been the number 1 Korean guild in every tier and have been at worst a top 10ish guild worldwide.

As to your second point, you have 2%, yes, 2% of all posts on this forum which includes posts in whatever private forums exist here. Therefore, what you think about world first guilds is extraordinarily baised.

[meth]

As to your first point, what you're saying is that a guild that came into existence at the start of this expansion, and since then went from being somewhere between a top 10 to top 25 (depending on what boss you want to call the end-boss) guild in tier 11 to a top 11 guild in t12 has no chance of being the number 1 guild in tier 13? Despite being formed this expansion they certainly didn't come out of nowhere. They've been the number 1 Korean guild in every tier and have been at worst a top 10ish guild worldwide.

As to your second point, you have 2%, yes, 2% of all posts on this forum which includes posts in whatever private forums exist here. Therefore, what you think about world first guilds is extraordinarily baised.

I think we might misunderstand each other here. I was pointing out Blood Legion when I stated that they only had one WF kill prior to Dragon Soul. That is why I think that they are no serious contender for the important WF kills. Sorry when I misunderstood your post in any way.

About the second part: Yes I know about my activity and involvement in the Paragon website. I am supporting them as much as possible but at the same time have remained as neutral as possible when voicing my opinions. I fully applaud KIN for their WF and welcome them to future WF races. At the same time I think that BL is overrated due to reasons stated in other posts.

So I do not bash every other guild no matter what, that is not my intention.

[Aurumai]

World 1st Morchok / Zonozz / Yor'sahj / Hagara / Ultraxion 25 Heroic as World Firsts. WF on Beth'Tilac HC

they are no serious contender

That's your biggest contradiction so far. Any guild capable of killing things faster than anyone else in the world, ESPECIALLY in heroic modes, is a very serious contender.

At the same time I think that BL is overrated due to reasons stated in other posts.

Reasons like what? Blood Legion and Paragon killed Heroic Warmaster Blackhorn on the same day. AFTER the bans were lifted. They both had equal amounts of time to progress on Heroic Deathwing. Blood Legion is now ranked higher than a guild that anyone can agree is one of, if not THE best.

People keep arguing as if the top guilds are still banned, but they're not -- You can't keep trying to push that excuse on everyone because you personally don't like the top guild. You've said it yourself several times in this thread: Only the last challenging encounters really matter. Blood Legion and Paragon had an equal footing on those encounters, and Blood Legion came out on top.

[normas]

People keep arguing as if the top guilds are still banned, but they're not -- You can't keep trying to push that excuse on everyone because you personally don't like the top guild. You've said it yourself several times in this thread: Only the last challenging encounters really matter. Blood Legion and Paragon had an equal footing on those encounters, and Blood Legion came out on top.

Before declaring that the guilds had any kind of equal footing you could take into the consideration a few facts like BL having 1 lockout gear advantage or that they pooled DTR mages from their server to down spine or that they raided through Christmas without losing raid days to server instability and weather issues in northern Europe, or that BL did in fact have 7 day advantage over Paragon in *25-man* spine.

Or you could simply look how they acted like shitkids when Blizzard handed them a free pass in DS and use that to take measure of their guild. There were no challenging encounters in DS and if you look past botched rankings you will find that BL hardly even fits into top10 guilds on the planet even after we lost an actually great guild in FTH.

[Aurumai]

BL having 1 lockout gear advantage

While I support and have sympathy for the situation which forced the top guilds' decisions to use the exploit, I've got to say that you really can't hold Blood Legion's decision against them. Who's fault is it, really, that Blood Legion had more gear at their disposal than the usual top guilds?

or that they pooled DTR mages from their server to down spine

Paragon could have done the same thing. Hell, KIN Raiders had 19 legendaries in their guild when they downed it.

or that they raided through Christmas without losing raid days to server instability and weather issues

Never heard anything about that. What's your source?

or that BL did in fact have 7 day advantage over Paragon in *25-man* spine.

I'm not suggesting that 10M and 25M are the same, but Paragon STILL had plenty of time to progress on the encounter.

Blizzard handed them a free pass in DS and use that to take measure of their guild.

What are you even talking about?

There were no challenging encounters in DS

First of all, that point is completely irrelevant -- It's been said time and time again in the past, and it STILL has no bearing on the guild rankings. And may I just ask for an armoury page? Have you personally progressed either of the Heroic Deathwing encounters, if any Heroic encounters at all?

and if you look past botched rankings you will find that BL hardly even fits into top10 guilds

Rankings are rankings. Even if a guild was to get all of the world first kills in 10M, they're still world firsts. While I may not entirely agree that 10M is equal to 25M in several different aspects, I can say that the rankings on the front page of WoW Progress are the only ones that really matter to me.

[normas]

I seriously don't know why I bothered even arguing. You claimed the guilds had an "equal footing" and I gave you several reasons on why that's wasn't even remotely true. You dodge them with "It's not their fault" or "they too could have done that" and dismiss everything you don't agree with. I don't usually go with the fanboy argument but for once I think that wouldn't be too inappropriate.